Navajo Talking Picture Transcript
- [Arlene] When I was about six years old, I started visiting my grandmother in the summertime. My family and I drove north from Phoenix, Arizona, to lower Greasewood on the Navajo reservation. As I got older, I saw her less and less. And when I went away to art school, in California, for several years, I stopped seeing her all together. But I always remembered her, though I didn't know her very well. When I was in art school, I wanted to make a film about my grandmother. One summer, after many years, I found a job on the Navajo reservation. I went on weekends to take still photographs of her. I researched her life. I assumed she would want to be filmed, but I didn't know enough about the Navajos. My grandmother doesn't live like me, that's for sure. At one point, she asked me not to take any more still photographs of her.
- [Interpreter] I'm angry with you. I'm just getting tired of all this filming. What's the use? Go and catch the sheep. I'll have you all in this film too.
- [Arlene] It dawned on me, that she just didn't want to be filmed. I should have listened to my intuitive feelings. But I wanted to make the film badly. When I had enough money, I came back with film and equipment to make the picture I had planned. At first, everything seemed to be okay. But after two weeks of shooting with a motion picture camera, she became less and less cooperative. She used to herd the sheep, but Harry Biah, her son, herds the sheep now. He helps my grandmother by overseeing her livestock and land. But that's not to say that she can't manage her own affairs. I admire that she's a physically strong and independent, traditional Navajo woman. I wanted to make a film, about my grandmother, Ann Ruth Biah, because she is unlike me and the way I grew up. I respect that she has kept her traditional ways, not being influenced by the white man's world. She likes to weave. She sells her rugs at the trading post for about $80 or less, depending on the size. She doesn't only depend on selling rugs for a living. She also receives social security assistance. From her home, the trading post is about five miles. She doesn't own a truck or car for transportation. So she pays people to give her a ride to the trading post. To go to Ganado or Holbrook, nearby places.
- [Interpreter] Where are they from? You know me, I live four miles away from here. Are they from your place? Yes, remember Blackwater? That's who I was with. That's who I am. That one's my grandchild. The one in the back. What about this one here? They're from the ocean. Oh, they came all the way from there? Is that their purpose for coming here? Oh yes, they came quite a while ago. I don't know if they're going back tomorrow or today.
- Don't take my picture, I don't want to be in there.
- [Arlene] Once a month, she receives commodity surplus. On the reservation, she can't shop for fresh vegetables like you and I in the big city. She doesn't have a refrigerator to keep food cool. No electricity, no modern conveniences. When she travels to town, she always feels homesick. She misses her sheep, her house, and land. She doesn't like to go to urban places. And when she does, she doesn't stay very long. Holbrook is a border town 60 miles south of lower Greasewood, in between the Navajo reservation, and non reservation of Arizona. It's a small town compared to Phoenix. Real small. Holbrook is the city to my grandmother. During Christmas in Holbrook, my grandmother visits my Aunt Cecilia, my mother's sister. Cecilia invites all the relatives to eat dinner and visit. But it's not like a party here in LA.
- [Speaker] She's asleep.
- Asleep?
- [Arlene] After we returned to my grandmother's house, my sound recordist, Janine, and I noticed that she had a change of mind about the filming.
- [Interpreter] I'm getting very annoyed with this filming. I'm so upset by it.
- [Arlene] I don't know Navajo, and she doesn't know English. I could tell that she was upset, because when we went into the front room, she went into the next room. She didn't want to speak to me. She kept turning her back on me. I thought that was kind of odd and cold. The next morning, my grandmother came out to Janine and I, as we stood near my car. she said to us in Navajo, "Leave." And she pointed with her finger and hand out to the land. I didn't understand. I kept filming, though certain things were forced. After I finished shooting in December, I returned to Los Angeles. Actually, I saw the footage about six months later, because I couldn't afford to process it and get a work print. Could I see a counselor, sign up to see a counselor?
- I am a counselor and a counselor cannot help you. The only people who can pull that for you is the work study office.
- Well, you mean I have to go next door?
- [Counselor] Just ask them to pull the folder and see if that was considered. If that fellowship, or information was considered for denying you, if you were denied.
- Okay.
- [Counselor] If it was not considered, then you may still be eligible.
- Okay. I'll just do that then.
- [Counselor] Okay.
- Okay, thank you.
- [Counselor] You're welcome.
- I'm told by my supervisor that there is nothing we can do to reverse any of the decisions at this point.
- That would- You mean everything's been picked out and chosen? Every student?
- [Administrator] Basically.
- And that would delay, I mean, or hurt my acceptance.
- [Administrator] Everything that's been done, cannot be reversed. Not because you're not eligible for it.
- [Arlene] When I saw the footage, I was disappointed because my grandmother's performance looked flat. She wasn't revealing. It took a year before I decided to place myself in front of the camera, to bring us together. Most of the students in this school are Anglos. The last ethnic identity anyone considers me in Los Angeles, is that I'm American Indian. I'm supposed to be a non-citizen of the U.S. or extinct, or if I don't wear long hair and braids. I was confused by my film's dilemma. I needed answers.
- Like if I, like I was telling you also, I was pretty naive starting out to make this movie about my grandmother. And now, you know, if I knew all that I knew now, I probably wouldn't make, would not have made that film at all.
- [Friend] Right, but nobody else would do it if they knew either. So, somebody had to go do it and if they were a little naive, well, then that's what it took, I guess.
- Maybe you don't need to do anymore shooting. Maybe you just need audio work.
- Of her, you mean?
- Yeah. I don't know.
- I don't know, I still kind of want to show the confrontation between her and me, you know? And I want the audience to see that, you know. Sometimes when I tell the audience, "Well my grandmother," "she doesn't even wanna see my movie." And they say you know, they just, "She doesn't want to see your movie?" They're shocked kind of. Your cousins or your brothers or whatever. They're supposed to want to see your movie. I don't know. My project is about filming my grandmother. Earl, what do you think the problems are? You know, the way you see it. The way American Indians react negatively. Let's say, for example, the Navajo. One time you told me, remember?
- Yeah. I think one of the things that you're talking about, your grandmother, where you also see was she was kind of camera shy. I think what what it is, is that a lot of times you're- being an Indian, you can't be really aggressive. And if you're aggressive you're considered like you're sarcastic or something like that. And then I think your grandmother probably felt there's an invasion on her privacy. Which is, you know, you just don't go out and show yourself in front of people, in front of cameras or anything like that. A lot of things involve, traditionally, you know, since Navajo people, Apache people, same thing. Especially in the old days, you know, where you don't take picture of yourself. If you keep it, even if people die, you don't keep the the pictures or any film of that kind. And because they also say that the spirits will come back and try to get the picture back. That's the reason why a lot of the traditional dances are not filmed. You know, since they're not taking pictures. So its like, same thing with, you know, sand paintings, that type of thing. They rub it out because there's real spiritual things involved. It's pretty heavy.
- [Arlene] So in the end, I decided I had to go back. My Aunt Cecilia wrote me this letter. July 9th, 1982. "Arlene, I had received your letter here yesterday" "and you were saying you were" "coming over again to bother grandma." "But I don't think you should waste your money on gas" "because grandma said she absolutely" "refused to pose for you again." "I feel sorry for some Navajos that" "don't even know their own language," "like you right now, you need help, but you can't get it."
- That's good.
- Before we went to film in lower Greasewood, I visited my mother in Phoenix where I grew up. I hope it doesn't take a long time to get a job.
- I hope not.
- What I want to be like, I'm really insistent. I said, please tell grandma I want this and this. I don't know if they do that. They don't show that. That's why I don't like interpreters.
- I think they don't explain it right when you talk to them.
- I don't know. You'd have to be there to judge. I don't know about that. It's best to speak in the language. Never am I going to use an interpreter again, ever in a movie on the reservation. I have to learn now. Hello, my name is Arlene Bowman. Is Duff Terry in there? Does Duff Terry live here? Is this Duff Terry's residence? Hello. My name is Arlene Bowman, does Duff Terry live here?
- [Man] Yeah.
- Is he around?
- [Man] His truck is over there.
- Is that his base truck over there?
- [Man] Yeah, that's him.
- Okay, thank you. And I'm willing to pay a fee, you know, if you will interpret for me.
- [Duff] Do it with these guys.
- Well, I don't know if he's willing to do it. Maybe, you know if he can. I don't know.
- [Duff] Oh, I'm so busy. I don't know.
- You don't know?
- [Duff] Busy, busy all the time.
- Well, would you be willing to interpret for me? You don't know? Or are you busy?
- I don't know. I have all this work to do.
- [Arlene] Oh, tomorrow too?
- Today.
- [Arlene] What about tomorrow?
- I don't, I'm supposed to work here tomorrow. No time. Too much work to do.
- I've shot most of the film about my grandmother already. And I'm in it now, you know? So I wanted, so I don't speak Navajo. I need someone to interpret. And Duff Terry helped me once. And there's a lady called Mary Bigue. She works over there at Greasewood and she works in the daytime. I need someone in the daytime. Yeah, the daytime, we can't do it at night. It has to be daytime, morning. Do you think you could do that tomorrow morning?
- Maybe, yeah.
- Maybe. You don't know?
- I'm working during the day.
- [Arlene] I mean, in the morning. Early in the morning. Like about 9:00 AM or something like that?
- I don't think so.
- Even with a fee? Do you know of anyone I could ask who could help me?
- [Worker] Maybe there's some people at the trading post.
- I don't know anyone hardly here, so.
- [Emerson] They know me. Emerson.
- Emerson? What? How come you didn't say anything? Emerson? Could you help me interpret with my grandma?
- I'll try.
- [Arlene] Tomorrow morning?
- I'll be there. Yeah, I'll be there at Grandma's.
- Well, good. We'll pay you after we're finished. It's gonna be about $20, something like that. And 9:00 AM we'll be there. Okay?
- Alright.
- [Arlene] How come you didn't say anything? Okay well, you're gonna be at my grandma's tomorrow morning?
- Yeah.
- Okay. We'll meet you there.
- Right.
- Okay? Come on.
- It was the third time when I went out there. I didn't feel scared. Yeah, I did feel mostly scared. I couldn't tell her I was coming. I didn't tell her because I was told by my mother that she would run away. I didn't listen. Well, I'm here. What I wanna know Emerson. Could you tell Grandma like that, we're filming me? I'm in the film now. I'm making it so that I'm in my own movie.
- [Emerson] Yeah.
- Okay, could you tell her that?
- [Emerson] Yeah.
- Just tell her the words. Tell her I like it that way. I want it that way.
- [Interpreter] Tell her the doctor is coming after me.
- Oh with her in the picture, like that?
- Yeah. I want to be in my own picture. I like it that way. It's better. Is there a Navajo word for better.
- Yeah.
- [Interpreter] She's telling you she's going to be in the film too. It's better to be in it together. That's enough.
- Also, tell her-
- [Interpreter] I don't want to be in it. Tell her no. Tell her that.
- I've acted in projects and I like, I like being- It doesn't bother me to be in front of a camera. I like it to be in front of the cameras. Most, most of the time. It's fun. Well, it's not fun all the time, but I like it. Tell her that. I like being in front of the camera.
- [Interpreter] She says she's not shy to be in front of the camera.
- Tell her it disappointed me. I would like her to see the film.
- [Interpreter] She wants you to take a look at it sometime.
- When we're finished.
- This summer like that?
- I'd like to, but it's not gonna be finished by then.
- Oh.
- Probably the fall or something like that.
- Okay. One more question I wanna ask you. Ask her.
- [Interpreter] I'm expecting a doctor soon.
- I want to ask her.
- [Interpreter] The doctor will be coming around for me. Tell her that right now.
- The purpose of my movie was not to make money. It's to show a lifestyle of a person. And you know how Navajos live out there.
- [Emerson] Yeah.
- It's different. Completely different lifestyle.
- [Emerson] Yeah.
- And I don't have no money. I mean, it's not- Well, it takes a lot of money to make a movie like this.
- [Emerson] Yeah.
- But you know, it's not to exploit. You know what the term exploit means?
- Yeah.
- Oh, well if you can translate it Navajo. Why does she think that I was exploiting her? You know, using her is another term.
- [Emerson] Yeah.
- [Arlene] Could you ask her?
- [Emerson] No.
- [Interpreter] Doesn't she have any pride? Why does she keep following me around like that? What are you people talking about? Now that's enough. The lady is coming for me soon. Tell her that I told you that.
- What is she-
- [Interpreter] Tell her The doctor is coming for me, now.
- What did she say?
- [Emerson] She said she was waiting for CHR.
- [Arlene] What's CHR?
- [Emerson] It's something like house representative.
- Oh, he's coming any moment or something?
- Yeah. I guess she's got an appointment.
- Oh.
- Yeah.
- But just could you ask her why she thinks I'm, I'm not- Why she thinks I'm, she thought I'm using her. Could you ask her that question?
- [Interpreter] She wants to know if it looks like I'm playing around with you. What did she say? She says, does it look like I'm playing around with you, the way I'm taking pictures of you? Yes. I don't like it. She's saying it's not really that way. Well, these pictures that she's taking of me are going to affect me in the future. That's what my relatives are telling me. And my grandchildren from Greasewood. I don't know why she keeps bothering me with this.
- What does she- sorry.
- Now she said that she got tired of being on the camera.
- Uh huh, I see.
- Then lots of people told and told her that, you know, not to go on cameras like that again.
- I heard Husky Begue say something to her.
- Yeah.
- But it's not true. You know, I even went to Husky Begue and asked him if it was true, and he denied it. I think he's just trying to.
- [Interpreter] My grandchild left for the hospital and another one is in surgery. I don't know. I just don't like this.
- I don't know. That's all I wanted to find out, you know?
- Yeah.
- I'm not doing a bad thing, I don't think.
- Yeah. She listens to other people who don't know about filmmaking like this. And then she gets, she believes the wrong thing. I think that's what happened, so. Well, that's about it. I don't have any further questions to ask. I just wanted to know those two main questions. Other than, and then also just to be social.
- [Emerson] Yeah.
- Like your grandmother, your grandmother, both your grandmothers were raised watching movies. Maybe they like watching movies and tv. You know, it's, it's not the same thing. My grandmother never watched movies or TV. And you know, it's a bit of a different story. And that's why it's so hard for her to answer. I don't know. That's her personality, like you said. That's her personality. It's very closed, introverted, sort of. But also I haven't, you know, been with her for a long time. I haven't been with her at all. And, and maybe that's why. That's why she just doesn't open up to me. And they're being- Those questions are real, you know, complicated, maybe. You know, it's not easy. You know, I don't want to push someone too much. You know, if I can get what we got so far, to me that's a lot. That really is a lot. It isn't- It isn't- It's a lot. And I didn't, we didn't force her really. We did force her, but not a lot, you know. Now I feel like I'm gonna push her kind of. I'll try and I'll try again, you know. But I still, it's like, I don't have anything else to say, almost. I don't know what to say. What else can we say, you know? How's the winter?
- [Friend] I would ask her about your grandfather.
- About what? About my grandfather.
- [Friend] How, you know, how he was and how she raised her kids and stuff like that.
- I kind of asked her those questions, but I don't know if she'll answer me. That's so out of the blue. Can't you tell there might be a conflict, tension in there. She doesn't want me in there. Do you know that?
- [Friend] Yeah. Well, you never know. Go ahead and try.
- Okay. Watch me ask that question there. It's gonna seem weird. Watch. I don't know if it'll work. And I don't even know if, I don't know any more questions to ask. I don't know at this point what to ask. You're gonna have to ask them, because I don't know.
- [Interpreter] Grandma, was all this picture taking forbidden among the Navajos? Navajos never used to take pictures a long time ago. They certainly never took pictures of their grandmother. It's just that she keeps bothering me with all this and I don't like it.
- She said that, a long time ago, they don't take pictures of their grandma like that.
- [Arlene] Really?
- Yeah. I guess that's why.
- Also, too, you know, probably a long time ago young people didn't get into taking pictures and into motion picture.
- Yeah.
- Probably there was none. But now it's a different generation. There are more people doing that kind of thing, I think. Also, I wanna ask her another question. When I finish this movie, do you think that she will see my movie? When it's completely finished? That will be next year probably.
- Yeah.
- When I'll finish it in the fall, probably.
- [Interpreter] I don't think so.
- She don't think so.
- [Arlene] Why?
- [Interpreter] She says she doesn't care to look at herself.
- [Arlene] Well, tell her she's beautiful. She doesn't think so? What did she say?
- She said, instead of there, she said no, she didn't want to.
- [Interpreter] Well, when I was young, my grandfather told me stories. I was never told that when I grew this old that my grandchild would be taking my picture. I was given stories. I was told to remember them in my prayers. And to this day, I remember them. Tell her that. Tell her that now.
- What did she say?
- She said that, I guess it's long time ago. This guy told her that, you know, near in the future, said that nobody's, I guess nobody's gonna take your picture like that, you know. Guess it's Navajo like that.
- Oh. Well, yeah.
- It's sacred like that today.
- Yeah. Yeah. Got him. Got the little lamb. Cute. This is for your interpreters fee.
- Yeah.
- And this is- Thank you for helping me, because if I couldn't get an interpreter,
- Yeah.
- I couldn't get it done. And you know, I think this.
- It's important like that too.
- Yeah, that's true.
- [Emerson] Yeah.
- And let's see.
- [Interpreter] Well, you're getting your picture taken. She should take a picture of that horse outside.
- Here, this is for grandma for being part of my project too. One, two, three, four. Five, six, seven. Here's- Oops, it's my receipts. And this is the rest. That's about $50. That's all. I wanted to ask you. I'm going to learn Navajo too.
- Oh.
- Learn it in AU.
- Yeah.
- Because they teach it there.
- Yeah. That's nice.
- Tell grandma that.
- Yeah.
- [Interpreter] Grandma, she said she's learning the Navajo language. Grandma, she said she's learning the Navajo language over in Flagstaff.
- Does Grandma resent it that I don't speak Navajo? I know it's hard 'cause I don't like using an interpreter. I don't like interpreters because it's hard. I'd rather speak to her like with my mouth to her mouth. Does she resent it that I don't know Navajo, speak Navajo?
- [Interpreter] Would you like me to be able to speak in Navajo, when I do learn?
- Yeah, I guess.
- [Interpreter] Yes. She said
- [Interpreter] It's very hard to communicate because we can't speak to each other.
- If we don't understand, she guess it's difficult.
- [Interpreter] I wish you could speak Navajo.
- She said she would like you to talk Navajo like that.
- Emerson come here. Emerson, I want you to- Emerson. Tell her we're gonna, you know, just goodbye.
- [Emerson] Huh?
- We're going. I want say goodbye.
- [Emerson] Oh.
- We're going off to Los Angeles.
- Oh.
- Bye. Okay. Bye Emerson.
- [Emerson] Yeah, bye. Will we be seeing it soon?
- Well, I'll tell you. I don't know. If you wanna see the film, you can see the film. I don't know when. I'll leave a postcard when it's really finished. It'll be really finished. I'll tell you, I'll send it to here. Okay?
- [Emerson] Alright.
- Okay. Bye Harry. It's too windy out there. I am glad it's all over. Tired. I don't think I slept very well last night. Tired. Just tired. It's done, at least. That's the hard part. What do you think you guys? You gonna say anything? Aren't you gonna say anything? I want some reaction.
- [Friend] I think everything went well, I did.
- We'll see when it comes out then we can tell if it went well.
- [Friend] Do you think she was more cooperative this time?
- What?
- [Friend] Do you think she was more cooperative this time?
- I guess, I guess so. When I look back now, I don't think my grandmother or I understood the problems of filmmaking. To her, it was just too much of an abstract idea. She gave me a yes without knowing what she was getting into. So I had to learn all around in a circle, going backwards, asking, bumping into it. It became more than just a film production. Picture taking is taboo to most traditional older Navajos. But it was the filmmaking, which made me understand them better. She grew up with a different set of codes. I grew up in the white world. I wasn't taught Navajo because my mother said she had a hard time learning English in boarding school, and she didn't want her children to have the same experience. So I wasn't taught Navajo. My behavior became very upsetting to her. Understanding is what I want. Understanding between my grandmother and myself. And myself and the Navajo.
